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Author Topic: Modeling Kingsbury Street
SDL39FAN

Posts: 8
Post Modeling Kingsbury Street
on: June 4, 2017,
Quote

Good morning,

Was wondering if anyone has modeled the southern end of the Chicago and Evanston in O scale? Specifically the Kingsbury Street portion. I am thinking about modeling this but trying to get an idea of how much I can actually model in the space I have.

I have attached two files that are drawings from MR 1975 and I am sure most of you may have seen Bill Denton's N Scale layout in MR that appeared much later. Bill based his layout on the 1975 article. What I am trying to determine is if I can faithfully model from National Tea/Montgomery Wards to the end of the line. By estimates I am looking at 40 ft in length.....not sure about the width.....

Any thoughts?

thanks

Michael Osweiler

Image

Martin
Administrator
Posts: 1387
Post Re: Modeling Kingsbury Street
on: June 4, 2017,
Quote

Spacing of ruling in the table is 48" and there are 11 blacks - 44 feet long?

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GreggL

Posts: 18
Post Re: Modeling Kingsbury Street
on: June 4, 2017,
Quote

Cool switching layout! I think additional modeling license might be required for O scale. With 48" blocks, reaching in from the edge to uncouple is a major stretch, even if accessible from both sides.

Martin
Administrator
Posts: 1387
Post Re: Modeling Kingsbury Street
on: June 4, 2017,
Quote

.......With 48" blocks, reaching in from the edge..........

to do anything is tough. Any depth that fully extends your arm and then at that limit where you might be picking up something that weighs a few pounds up, over, or around structures could prove difficult.

Some compression to make it within physical limits will help - could be a very neat operations layout particularly if you could loop in a through train every so often, 😉

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SDL39FAN

Posts: 8
Post Re: Modeling Kingsbury Street
on: June 5, 2017,
Quote

Hello,

Thanks for the responses so far.

I knew there would be some compression involved. I guess I was looking at this in several ways.

One, the original article is from 1975 so are the parameters used by the author still valid today or have there been changes that would look at this in a different way?

The second was that the buildings on the back side would be essentially just the fronts and the two factories at the far right would be holes in the backdrop. There would be a walking area on the back side of this part of the layout. I also don’t need to have structures on the front side such as the printing company or the freight house. The two spurs on both side of Ontario would go into a small area of the basement that would be accessed by a duck under.

Would it be possible to put four tracks side by side in a 24-30 inch wide shelf with room for a siding on each side? I am still in the process of deciding whether to go standard or proto48 so I have no track to lay down for a test. The layout design would be an L shape with the trackage between Erie and Ontario being where the track would curve. Just so everyone knows the era I am modeling the trackage ends between Grand and Illinois streets.

Robert

Posts: 392
Post Re: Modeling Kingsbury Street
on: June 5, 2017,
Quote

I remember this MR article very well. I thought it was a very interesting subject to model. If one had the space available to do it in O scale without any serious alterations it could be a real winner. That brings us back to the number one O scale issue when trying to develop any track plan...SPACE.

Robert

Charlie

Posts: 191
Post Re: Modeling Kingsbury Street
on: June 5, 2017,
Quote

If you are still considering P48 vs. O standard, your choice of couplers will effect the design. Kadee couplers vs. cut lever operated Protocraft type couplers.

I use cut lever operated couplers and my longest reach track is 32" track center to layout edge. The cut lever is operated from the side with an extendable rod.

Charlie

GreggL

Posts: 18
Post Re: Modeling Kingsbury Street
on: June 5, 2017,
Quote

Quote from SDL39FAN on June 5, 2017,
One, the original article is from 1975 so are the parameters used by the author still valid today or have there been changes that would look at this in a different way?

<snip>Would it be possible to put four tracks side by side in a 24-30 inch wide shelf with room for a siding on each side?

NMRA standards have been updated and they are available online for downloading - especially the ones on track clearances (S7 and S8 IIRC). I model P:48 and the straight yard tracks are centered at 3.75" and there is plenty of room to uncouple cars with a magnetic wand from the top. If I were using Protocraft couplers with cut levers, it might be a different story. I would suggest a mock up, with the tracks at the layout's planned height, lay out 6 pieces of flex track at various distances apart and try coupling and uncoupling with whatever couplers and tools you plan to use. Can also move the tracks back various distances from the edge to judge how easy it is to reach across - especially when the closer tracks are loaded with cars (article mentioned they stored cars on nearly every available siding).

Consider the era too - 40 footers and first generation diesels can handle curve radii of 40". But....can you couple and uncouple on those curves?

LD Sig published some suggestions that Joe Fugate mentioned in one of the TrainMasters TV videos recently:

Operational length of car (middle of coupler to coupler distance)
Radius = 2.5 x Op Length can track, but pushing it
Radius = 3 x Op Length Run freely, but toy looking as radius appear too tight
Radius = 4 x Op Length Looks good
If curve viewed from inside, this can decrease to 3.5x
Radius = 5 x Op Length Ease of coupling and switching

They found that a radius of 5 times the operating car length allowed you to couple and uncouple - anything less than that required manual assistance. eg, a 10" car needed a 50" radius to facilitate coupling and uncoupling. However, I use Protocraft couplers and have to manually assist switching jobs on 60" radius curves. YMMV.

Bottom line, the 1975 parameters seem reasonable, but have to be taken into consideration as to what your running (i.e., trust, but verify). And, you should be able to fit 6 tracks in 30" of width, but what you can do when they are loaded and the setback, can be determined by trial and error.

...gregg

Chris-
Webster

Posts: 16
Post Re: Modeling Kingsbury Street
on: June 21, 2017,
Quote

Chuck Zeiler has posted a ton of great Chicago pictures over at rrpicturearchives.net: Chuck Zeiler's Railroad Picture Archives!

While it's not part of the Kingbury Street, I really love this scene:
C&NW rebuilt Baldwin/EMD S12M 1126 at about Michigan Avenue and Illinois Street in Chicago, Illinois on an unknown day in July 1978

I did a quick search and found two photos of Kingbury Street:
Milwaukee Road MP15AC 492 on Kingsbury Street in Chicago, Illinois on October 12, 1987

Milwaukee Road MP15AC 439 on Kingsbury Street in Chicago, Illinois on October 8, 1987

GreggL

Posts: 18
Post Re: Modeling Kingsbury Street
on: June 22, 2017,
Quote

Quote from Chris Webster on June 21, 2017,
While it's not part of the Kingbury Street, I really love this scene:
C&NW rebuilt Baldwin/EMD S12M 1126 at about Michigan Avenue and Illinois Street in Chicago, Illinois on an unknown day in July 1978

Great looking scene!

BTW, what did engineers do when an automobile was blocking a spur and they needed to spot a railcar there? Would they spot the car somewhere else and let the next crew switch it?

Thanks...gregg

SDL39FAN

Posts: 8
Post Re: Modeling Kingsbury Street
on: July 2, 2017,
Quote

Gregg.

In reading through multiple magazines and books every time it is mentioned about cars or trucks blocking the train they waited on the driver to move it or called in a tow truck. Some of the businesses could not wait on the next switch crew to work the line.

GP-9

Posts: 255
Post Re: Modeling Kingsbury Street
on: July 2, 2017,
Quote

Gregg,
There was a Railroad with similar operation in Boston Massachusetts, it was called "The Union Freight" or "The Railroad That Came Out At Night" There were 2 books about it with that title one published in 1977,the other was done in 1989, which had text added to bring it up to date(1989) I don't think the first one(1977)is available, the second edition was done by Carstens publications RMC, which is now White River Productions. Not sure if that one is available either, but I did pick up a copy about a year ago.
Then there was the modeling book by Kalmbach called "Building City Scenery for your model railroad". Done by the late John Pryke. It is about building an HO Model of "The Union Freight"
And on the Union Freight the brakeman was sent out to find the person of the illegal parked cars.

Bill

Robert

Posts: 392
Post Re: Modeling Kingsbury Street
on: July 3, 2017,
Quote

I remember John Pryke's articles. He was quite good at the tracks in the pavement type railroad. I didn't know he passed away.

Robert

GP-9

Posts: 255
Post Re: Modeling Kingsbury Street
on: July 3, 2017,
Quote

Yes Robert he passed away in December 2013

Bill

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